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Post by rockphoenix on Jul 16, 2008 6:28:28 GMT -5
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Post by zooba on Jul 16, 2008 7:13:25 GMT -5
There's certainly no secret that Hillsong is the hub of prosperity teaching in Australia, and theres also definately no secret (on these forums at least) of my...general distaste...for such teaching.
So yes, I am not Hillsong's biggest fan.
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Post by rockphoenix on Jul 16, 2008 7:44:11 GMT -5
I am with you on that, polluting peoples (the spiritually naive at least) minds into thinking this is Christianity.
Apostasy is here to stay as the end times unfold and so help us God deliver as many souls as we can from this deception.
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Post by exodus312 on Jul 16, 2008 8:25:40 GMT -5
hell, even their songs are shallow...
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Post by ironguardian on Jul 16, 2008 9:55:27 GMT -5
Hill$ong...
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Post by jeffdls on Jul 16, 2008 10:36:25 GMT -5
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Post by exodus312 on Jul 17, 2008 0:16:17 GMT -5
I can remember watchin Hillsong TV on Foxtel one night (yes, I was bored), and the guy who was "preaching" was saying the most absurd things I've ever heard, such as:
(none of these are exact quotes, but it was essentially the idea of what he was saying)
"Don't obey you're parents. Respect them, but don't obey them."
And my personal fave...
"Reading books is good, but don't get knowledge from them. All books are essentially there to read, and then ignore."
To which everyone in the room at the time (one of which was an ordained Anglican minister) looked at each other and went "What about the Bible then?"
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Post by zooba on Jul 17, 2008 2:23:50 GMT -5
At the start of one of his sermons as the warm up joke Brian Houston said to the audience something along the lines of "turn to the person next to you and explain to them the importance of Leviticus" at which point everyone laughed.
That an ordained minister could have such low respect for the Bible I think really speaks for itself.
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tabiasprime
Active Discussion Person
My King is He in the power of Three
Posts: 207
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Post by tabiasprime on Jul 17, 2008 6:34:34 GMT -5
even though im not the biggest fan of hillsong, i found this to be a very one sided and negitive video, im wondering what are the motives of the person who produced this video are. its easy to jump on the band wagon of the hillsong bashing train without hearing the otherside of the story. i wonder about some of the facts in this video, for one, in regards to all the money. What you need to remember is this is a large church that would have some very large bills to pay, there are people who are employed who need to be payed, equipment that needs to be maintaned, everyday running of the the church, i could go on but i think you get the point, its not our place to take just a small bit of info and turn it in to something its not. it takes money to run a church, big or small.
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tabiasprime
Active Discussion Person
My King is He in the power of Three
Posts: 207
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Post by tabiasprime on Jul 17, 2008 6:38:14 GMT -5
also i wonder if he got permission to use the Andrew Denton footage
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Post by exodus312 on Jul 17, 2008 8:06:51 GMT -5
to tell the truth, I never actually watched the video.
I just have a fairly large dislike for some of the stuff that they do. Not all, just some.
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Post by rockphoenix on Jul 17, 2008 20:00:40 GMT -5
Well tabias if the information was incorrect then all involved with making this video would be liable of a law suit for defamation etc.
Also the other side of the story is that they "hillsong" cannot be challenged, any true man/organization of God would not be afraid of challenges if they indeed are of the truth and preaching the truth.The fact they do not allow anyone to challenge them suggests they have things to hide.
Besides this i could post what other non connected sources have said about hillsong too.
As Christians it is our duty to expose falsehood and in this day and age there is much to expose, the reality is the true Church(believers) is the minority in the whole scheme of things as in "the Christian Church". It would be increadibly naive to accept a group/church or whatever as genuine believers just because they say so as the bible says you shall know them by their fruits and we are to test the spirit also so as in this hillsong case if it looks like a duck,sounds like a duck and acts like a duck then shoot it is a duck.
Just because they preach Jesus as lord does not mean they are really from the Lord even though souls may be saved through them, those saved souls however if led by God and reading their bibles would soon realize something is terribly wrong.
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Post by mercury on Jul 19, 2008 4:30:50 GMT -5
I think we need to careful not to make a generalisation that blankets a large percentage of Hillsong attendees that are nothing like the media driven propaganda.
Don't get me wrong- I'm no Hillsong fan-the emphasis on materialism I think is a cancer that has crept into the Church world wide. You do need to be aware that there is a direct attack on Hillsong by the Sydney media for some horrible reasons and Hillsong have had many opportunities to sue but didn't due to their belief in mercy and forgiveness. I wish they would put the media in their place!
What is interesting is that the greatest attack they cop is from other denominations-and most of them are dead, claiming to be intellectual and pious. I think Hills could benefit by selling everything off and distributing it to the poor and needy-along with every other church that builds enormous temples and manipulates tithing theology.
The real problem here is not one church ( remember Hills has ministered to hundreds of thousands of people in some amazing ways), the problem is the materialism that has rooted itself in the church globally.
We as Christians can never justify wealth when there is poverty in the world. We can never use scripture to justify the creation of personal litergical 'kingdoms', monarchs and spiritual ceo's. For the record, Hillsong does not preach 'prosperit doctrine' persae, they do however have an emphasis on finance and wealth-something we see just about everywhere.
Besides, if you read scripture, you will see that just about every church in the world is functioning in a manner that has little or no biblical justification.
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Post by exodus312 on Jul 19, 2008 5:07:42 GMT -5
amen
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Post by ironguardian on Jul 19, 2008 22:39:02 GMT -5
Its easy to pick on a church that we fell is worse than our own...
I've often had problems with big ornate, fancy churches, that spend more on the building than those who need help. I rarely vocalise my thoughts though, as often I get told something along the lines of "It God's house, and we're honouring Him", or something similar.
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Post by graveforsaken on Jul 20, 2008 3:24:12 GMT -5
Hopefully the true Christian message is getting through to the hearts of the individuals in the congregation.
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Post by ironguardian on Jul 20, 2008 4:32:08 GMT -5
Mmm, thats nother thing I've wondered about... can "Evil" do "Good"?
Not sying Hillsong is evil, but just more of a general question.
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Post by zooba on Jul 20, 2008 5:09:36 GMT -5
Getting off topic a bit, but absolutely, God can use evil people and their evil actions to accomplish good things - eg. the crucifixion, Joseph's brothers selling him into captivity. Back on topic..I found this video on Youtube of Pastor John Piper giving his view of the prosperity gospel. www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukcV-xtU3hc I had been told that he gets quite...passionate in his disgust of the prosperity gospel but I have to say I still was a bit taken aback. If you listen to his other sermons you know that his vocal delivery is usually more along the lines of 'doting Grandfather' style, rather than the 'repent or burn in hell' style. Which make sense since he is actually a grandfather...but anyways, give it a watch. Unfortunately someone decided it would be fun to attach background music to it and make it so loud that its hard to hear him speaking, but its still worth the watch.
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Post by rockphoenix on Jul 20, 2008 22:02:55 GMT -5
Vaughan i agree with your sentiments on the true Christian message getting through.Sadly though because hillsong is based or at least fruited from prosperity this is a message that will shine through to people which is totally in opposition with what Jesus says about wealth.
Now i totally agree with what Rowland has said that God can and does save people from these types of organisations which only have some of the truth, even as said evil people can be used for God's purposes.Jacob Prasch an american born converted jew who tours the world preaching and also runs "Moriel Ministries" was saved through "the children of god movement".With this said though one cannot stay within that false church/group or whatever as i cannot find the exact verse at this time however in the bible it says "COME OUT OF HER MY PEOPLE" because even though one can be saved in these groups does not mean they are being led by or know Jesus.
To explain the last part of the previous paragraph further "doing the will of God" entails all of scripture and God's purpose which sadly many of the churches have moved away from this by dismissing certain scriptures, adding their own in, misinterpreting scripture(s).Examples of this are the prosperity gospel, women pastors/teachers and homosexual/lesbian pastors.No one is perfect as we know however you can find good entire bible believing/teaching churches.Just because a church falls under the banner of "Christian" does not mean they are being led by Christ as it is easy to say i/we know Christ though can you/they say Christ knows them?.This is verified by the words of Jesus himself when he talks about the judgment day when he says in Matthew 7:21-23 21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
Jehovas witnesses and the mormons claim to know Christ too while as we all know have beliefs and or own books that clearly contradict the true word of God and this is being done in the mainstream Church today as well.
Highlighting things such as hillsong is not nit picking as such because the truth is discernment is crucial as satan always begins his works not from the outside but from within the church.Now days the fruit of this is spreading like wildfire throughout the church. Scripture also warns us even the elect "if possible" are targets of his corruption/deception. Mark 13:22 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.
So you see being in a so called "Christian Church" is not a safeguard as doing the will of God and not claiming to know Jesus or following him but being known and led by Jesus is the key.
There is only one true Church being led by Christ that has followers through many denominations however if it is revealed to a believer by the Holy Spirit their is a problem then to stay you run the risk of being led astray/swept away when God's judgment falls.
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Post by godsrockess on Aug 4, 2008 5:20:58 GMT -5
I'll admit im a big fan of the songs they sing. But im not a fan of the people or the church.
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