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Post by themonster on Nov 22, 2005 14:20:18 GMT -5
Well, things are different in Australia than here in America. I'd like to see you come to America and go to some of these Churches around here, then you'd have a very different mindset about Church.
And to say that "We're only human", that's a lame excuse and a cop out for the behaviour of Christians and Churches. God gave everyone a brain, and we all know the difference between right and wrong. Every human has the ability to make the right decisions and do what is right.
If you do something wrong, then be a man about it and admit it, and take responsibility for your actions. Don't just stand there and say "Dude i'm only human kay thanks".
I've seen so many Christians, countless Christians that sleep around with a bunch of different people, and do drugs and get drunk, and yet they sit in Church every Sunday like the hypocrites they are. And I ask them, "How can you call yourself a Christian or sit in Church after the way you behave?". And then they say "Dude i'm only human, kay!". That's just a lame excuse for your ignorant and wrong decisions.
And the next Christian that comes up to me and tells me that "I'm not living for God", or "I'm evil" or "I'm a devil worshipper", or "I need to cut my hair", they will be going to the hospital.
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Post by archangel on Nov 23, 2005 7:03:36 GMT -5
The monster i am with you 100% all the way ,to have christians say afterall we are only human is a BIG COPOUT AND ABSOLUTELY ARROGANT to their issue of individual responsibility,,,we are human but yet make the choice reguarding our actions,it is a choice and these people hide behind the mask of oh well we are only human which is so lame..
Another poor excuse i have heard christians use is do not look at spec in your brothers eye without first removing the log in your own eye which has been used out of context by so many christians it aint funny, it is allright to rebuke someone for a sin or inappropriate behaviour as long as you do not do the same thing yourself so therefore those that use that one ignore their own responsibility and again it is downright arrogant.
I live in australia and yes exactly the same things happen in churches in the u.s. happen here and for those that think not ought to get their head out of the sand because the truth is and i know some may not like hearing this but the majority of the church here in australia as i am sure is similar to that in the usa is DEAD spiritually and has lost it's influence and respect of those on the outside due to these things and the only way to erradicate this problem is to turn back to JESUS and renounce all the worldly standards and ungodly practises and teachings and lack of self responsibility to choose right or wrong that the church has adopted......
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Post by themonster on Nov 23, 2005 15:47:16 GMT -5
Yes archangel, thank you. You are correct.
I will continue to put my faith in Jesus and follow him, but I will not follow any man, or sit in a Church and be told how to live my life.
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Post by Mike on Nov 24, 2005 0:47:03 GMT -5
The church nowadays is prettymuch like it was when Christ came--stuffed full of Pharasies. We are in need of a Spiritual enema. At Cornerstone I found so many people, tatooed, pierced working class like us who've got so much more passion for ministry than all those stuffed suits who told me I'm in sin because my music has blastbeats. Christianity is about the spirit. To make it into an exclusive club is blasphemy. This also applies to any "scene", I sometimes see similar hypocrasy in those.
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Post by The Centurion on Nov 24, 2005 1:02:55 GMT -5
Yeah, I see alot of hypocrisy in the Christian metal scene as well. Like youve got the churches hating the metalheads and the metalheads hating the churches. It really is a shame.
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Post by Todd on Nov 24, 2005 19:13:39 GMT -5
I have yet to find a church that is accepting of individuality, most of them have the 'herd conforminty' thing happening nad when a dude like me walks through the door....well, heads turn and things get said...that i always end up hearing about. church is a place all ought to feel welcome. Jesus didn't hang out with the higher ups in the church or even the deacons...he hung out with guys and gals just like us.......the snubbed, the blacklisted, the scapegoats for others sins/crimes. Because we're different, we're a threat? Doubtful, but it doesn't mean we're idiots either This is why I quit going to local churches in my community and have yet to find one that will 'accept' an individual that doesn't follow what is 'right' in the world around them.
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Post by graveforsaken on Dec 4, 2005 5:42:51 GMT -5
Both Monster and archangel have taken my comment about us being only human completely out of context. I did not say that was an excuse for sin, which is how it seems to have been interpreted. I was saying it in the context of our attitude towards the sin of others, not in the context of our attitude toward our own sin. I just wanted to clear this up because I feel I've been misquoted.
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Post by archangel on Dec 6, 2005 2:50:51 GMT -5
No graveforsken i did not take your comment out of context, bottomline is that all too many christians these days have the oh well we are only human outlook towards their own sin and use it as a justification for sin.
Bottom line is we all know the difference between right and wrong no matter if you are chrisian or not and you would like to hope the church would be shining the way in this but sadly in many cases is not so graveforsaken i was not trying to constrew your comment it just so happens too many christians have and use this attitude so it was just a coinscidental you had mentioned it.
To finish off we do need to encourage people to christlikeness even if it means rebuking someone because not all christians respond to the holy spirit in relation to their sin due to pride etc. so if we all hide in shells and put up with sin then as the saying goes the less things change the more they stay the same so god uses others to help other members of god's family and as long as you yourself is right with the lord in that specific area then i am sure god would encourage this.
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zargoth
Active Discussion Person
Posts: 308
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Post by zargoth on Dec 7, 2005 10:04:05 GMT -5
Can I be honest with you guys? Surely you can't be real?!??!? Themonster, you have made comments that literally state that 99% of preachers are guilty of sin and are thus hypocrites, sins you claim involve sleeping around with many different people... Are you really saying this?? Also, you claim that people look at you weirdly and judge you because of your metal-ness... If ,Themonster, you want to send people to hospital because of this, are you helping the situation or are you giving people MORE reason to be suspicious and judgemental of you? Archangel, you agree 100% Do you also agree with sending people to hospital? That doesn't seem very Christian to me... But the fruit of the spirit is love, joy peace, patience, kindness etc... By your inciteful and judgemental comments (ie. The 'whole' western church is spiritually dead???) You guys aren't really helping anything, and you certainly aren't helping to direct people to Christ- you're just directing people away from the church! Christ was a servant of all, that is what we need to be. Find a church, serve there and prove to the judgementalists that they are wrong- that you will serve and are serving Christ! I haven't really seen ANY evidence of the Fruits of the Spirit in your comments thus far... Finally, Archangel, I do believe that you have taken graveforsaken's comment out of context. We can only ever be held accountable for our own actions. We need to be held accountable for them. We should even develop relationships with peers to help each other and support each other too. We cannot just complain about the leadership. We need to support our leaders, their jobs must be so hard- and how much harder when Christians keep dragging them down? Sound familiar? That is exactly how we feel when 'they' judge us because of our metal influences... If all we do is complain, we only make matters worse. Support the church. There is an incident (Exodus, I think) where Israelites were starting to complain about Moses and were starting to gossip and undermine God's leadership. The earth opened up and swallowed them. Make things easier for the leadership- serve- help them! I have been judged many times because I wore black a lot or just because my band played metal etc etc. I have had to endure odd looks and unfair comments... Isn't that part of what we expect- we want to be seen, to make people think and see things differently because we are metalheads... I hope that you can see my heart here, I really just want to see people helping to make things better- so we can all follow Christ to our full potential! Thanks.
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Post by themonster on Dec 7, 2005 14:05:21 GMT -5
First of all, gets your facts straight before you start running your mouth, boy.
I did say that "99% preachers...whatever". Maybe I went a little bit too far with that statement, BUT I DID NOT say that the preachers sleep around with a bunch of different people. I said that I have seen so many people that call themselves "Christians" sleeping around and doing drugs, etc...
2nd fact...Archangel agreed with me about my statement that too many Christians use "We're only human" as an excuse to keep on sinning over and over. He DID NOT agree with me about "sending someone to the hospital". He never even made any comment about that.
And no one has taken anyone else's comment out of context. Me and archangel have just simply stated a truth and a fact. We did not take anyone's comments out of context.
And finally, I will NOT go to any Church ever again. I did the Church thing for 15 years and it only caused me to hate everyone. I will not sourround myself with liars, and fakes, and hypocrites. I will not be told what to wear, what to listen to, or how long my hair should be.
That is all. Thank you.
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Post by The Centurion on Dec 7, 2005 14:19:23 GMT -5
On a happier note, I'm going to check out a new church tonight, im supposed to meet a dude named Patrick to jam with since the church is letting us use their equipment. It will be interesting to see how they react when the growling starts
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Post by themonster on Dec 7, 2005 19:55:33 GMT -5
"Oh my God Dude! What is that? Why are you growling?! Only Satanists do that stuff! You must stop growling and repent and give up metal to be saved...kay thanks!"
That's the kind of nonsense they say around here.
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Post by Mike on Dec 7, 2005 20:28:44 GMT -5
On a happier note, I'm going to check out a new church tonight, im supposed to meet a dude named Patrick to jam with since the church is letting us use their equipment. It will be interesting to see how they react when the growling starts Yeah man, give me a call lemme know how it went. Guess it's finals, haven't talked to many people this week.
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Post by graveforsaken on Dec 7, 2005 23:34:19 GMT -5
I pretty much want to check out of this debate. In the case of monster, I'm sad for you that a brother feels so much resentment towards the church, but I respect your feelings. I hope one day you can find a body of believers to fellowship with dude.
It's hard to convey feelings on the net, so things are open to misinterpretation. I'd like to conclude by saying I never meant any offense, nor have I been offended by anyone. Rock on!
And Centurion, hope this church works out for you.
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Post by The Centurion on Dec 7, 2005 23:53:12 GMT -5
Yeah guys it was pretty sweet, the pastor is into Extol and stuff like that, so he was totally cool with our little jam session.
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Post by archangel on Dec 9, 2005 19:36:16 GMT -5
Thankyou monster , i am glad to see someone saw what i posted for what it is...
Zargoth as monster pointed out i did not agree 100% with sending people to hospital,, lol i was only agreeing with the comment that all too many use the oh well we are only human excuse for their actions.
And as far as the western church being spiritually dead if you go back and READ what i posted i said a majority of the western church is spiritually dead so you obviously did not read properly what i had posted,, furthermore the reality is that like in the times of Jesus most of his opposition came from the church due to mainly the pharisees and it is the same today you cannot take a church on face value as many false christs have come into the church and it is increadibly naieve to think all churches are from christ,,,,,prosperity gospel and homosexual preachers to name a couple of examples..
Finally zargoth as you implied that what i had written to you does not seem very christian and was not displaying the fruits of the spirit and i am guessing this was for monster as well i really do not think you are in a position to make such comments given that the things you responded to that were written by me were completely misread by you and as far as the comment made by monster about sending people to the hospital i am not into violence myself but i really feel his comment about that was more out of frustration towards the wolves in sheeps clothing rather than out of violence..
Anyway thanks again monster and zargoth i hope you have the clear picture of all of this now.
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Post by archangel on Dec 9, 2005 20:09:37 GMT -5
One more thing , the comments made by monster have been misread by you also so i suggest next time you take your time and read things before you reply to these posts because it is increadibly unfair the comments you have made about him.
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Post by graveforsaken on Dec 9, 2005 21:19:40 GMT -5
As I said, it's easy to misinterpret things on the net. There's been some misinterpreting both ways. I'm sure if we all got together in the same room we'd be buddies. Let's just put it all behind us.
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Post by themonster on Dec 9, 2005 21:28:43 GMT -5
Right on Archangel.
And graveforsaken, you don't have to feel sorry or sad for me. My decision about Church and "fellowship" has been made. I will be just fine by myself. It's my decision, and it will the best thing for me in the end. The people in Church can fellowship amongst themselves and twist the Bible however they want.
But I will stay at home and talk to God. I will follow God's Commandments, not man's.
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Post by The Centurion on Dec 10, 2005 1:55:26 GMT -5
Well, tempers have flared lately, but I think we are all getting along ok now.
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