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Post by metasaiah on Oct 25, 2007 9:03:17 GMT -5
Know of any bands that are alright for Christians to listen to?
The odd curse word doesn't bother me so much but I just want to stay clear of stuff that is genuinely against God etc.
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Post by ironguardian on Oct 25, 2007 9:10:18 GMT -5
Well the usual (boring) suspects are Evanescence and Killswitch.
The awesome ones are the modern Megadeth and Alice Cooper.
Oh wait.. are you after bands which are not anti-christian? That list is massive... I though you were after bands with pro-christian/positive lyrics.
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Post by metasaiah on Oct 25, 2007 9:12:04 GMT -5
Yeah, not the "we're-not-officially-Christian" bands but the secular bands that are not really bad...
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Post by Todd on Oct 26, 2007 16:48:38 GMT -5
as a rule of thumb, i have started to keep my mouth shut about topics like these, so I'm not going to list any bands at all [mainly because i find none of them at all to be justified or supported by the word of God since the Word is absolutes and not gray areas like so many American and non American Christians believe it to be], instead i will offer you just a word of advice, regardless of what you choose to listen to, watch, read, do it with more caution than you would with anything else. World in world out, that's the way things work for man, eventually we end up thinking and act like that which we put into our eyes, ears, etc... The last thing you want to become is like the rest of the world and end up luke warm and compromising your walk with God just to enjoy worldly entertainment of any kind.
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Post by rockergirl on Oct 26, 2007 19:34:22 GMT -5
Excellent point Toddpope.It is very easy to justify listening to a band or singer that ain't necessarily a Christian and yes you do have to be careful what you allow to pass through your ears into the mind.If your close enough with God then the holy spirit will guide your thoughts and actions but after reading what you posted on this one thing that strikes me is that if you buy the albums or go to the concerts then you are still partaking in the world and even supporting them in what they do by paying to see them and or buying their music.
I must admit i am guilty of buying non Christian music and seeing the non Christian artists live however i am trying to steer away from that way of life because you can try and justify it all you like but at the end of the day it is being part of worldliness.
I would like to say that good can be found in non Christian music as far as lyrical content goes that is not necessarily worldly in the context about the message meaning songs often are written about experiences etc.
Plus you can give meanings to songs yourself ie the song are you gonna go my way by Lenny Kravitz despite what the meaning may be could be to another person "are you gonna go God's way".
What matters the most i feel is what is in ones heart and if they live and breath music and can't live without it then there is a problem because there is a line and ones like the jw's etc have crossed over the line where they call all media and entertainment evil which is not always the case.
But yes worldly entertainment can lead you down a path to luke warmness and how one lives their life is a reflection of who their God is and if one was to live for going to the next gig or their favourite bands album being released then that says it all.
Me and my house are in the world but would rather not be which is why we wait with anticipation for the return of our Lord and saviour Jesus Christ.
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Post by winnow on Dec 29, 2007 3:10:15 GMT -5
Could you please provide some writings from the bible that are against non-christian entertainment? I'm not saying they are not there? I'm just interested to see what you can provide. If its really as easy and just hearing it and it will effect your spiritual walk then you might as well plug your ears and blindfold yourself every time you step outside. There is such a big emphasis put on music which I can understand, but some of the arguments I hear I just find weak. I'm still yet to hear someone say you shouldn't watch nature documentries because 99% of the time they talk about evolution. I know music can be a very powerful thing and thats why I think people deserve to get some good strong advice and not just some scripture that someone has pulled out and not taken a deep look into. And please dont think I have anything against scripture. Its just I know how easily it can be used to push one's own agenda. Remember the Pharisee's did it... and Satan used scripture in the desert in his attempts against Jesus.
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Post by winnow on Dec 29, 2007 3:14:07 GMT -5
Plus you can give meanings to songs yourself ie the song are you gonna go my way by Lenny Kravitz despite what the meaning may be could be to another person "are you gonna go God's way". I watched an interview with Lenny Kravits and he said himself that song is about Jesus and how Jesus is the ultimate way.
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Post by Todd on Dec 30, 2007 22:24:49 GMT -5
Could you please provide some writings from the bible that are against non-christian entertainment? I'm not saying they are not there? I'm just interested to see what you can provide. basically every verse used to describe a warning against "love of the world" or "serving two masters" when world is used, that goes for anything of the world and not of God, it's a generalized Greek work that is not open to intepretation but literally means anything of the World. The parable of the two masters that Christ spoke of shows man cannot love both God and the world for he will love the one and hate the other and the world will always win out if that is what we continually fill otrselves with. Sure most of us can use the word to justify sinning [look at most tv preachers they make a living doing it], but using it to show how actually being separate from the world is commanded and not 'hinted' is entirely different. If its really as easy and just hearing it and it will effect your spiritual walk then you might as well plug your ears and blindfold yourself every time you step outside. There is such a big emphasis put on music which I can understand, but some of the arguments I hear I just find weak. I'm still yet to hear someone say you shouldn't watch nature documentries because 99% of the time they talk about evolution. this is classic "conditioned circular reasoning" here, using human reasoning to cancel out biblical knowledge. I understand your point and your debate but the word is quite black and white on everything, the reason why i don't watch nature shows is because 100% evolution is always heavily promoted. Much for the same reason i don't listen to secular music, it is not of God, sure it can be written about God but it will always be of the world and not of Him. I know music can be a very powerful thing and thats why I think people deserve to get some good strong advice and not just some scripture that someone has pulled out and not taken a deep look into. And please dont think I have anything against scripture. Its just I know how easily it can be used to push one's own agenda. Remember the Pharisee's did it... and Satan used scripture in the desert in his attempts against Jesus. this is very true, but Satan has also invaded the church divided it from within which is why we have so man different disagreeing faiths. One says pork is always unclean the other says nothing is unclean of itself. the law is invalid to almost 99% of christians, and there is very little knowledge being sought by believers these days until topics like these come up. But still they whys and wherefores are almost always claimed to be "ripped out of context" but, i am not supporting a view of my own here, this is 100% biblical truth on the matter of all things worldly, man says he's right all the time, God knows we're wrong about the secular music/christian music debate, there really is no debate because anything not of God is off limits. sure i know, i know, "well is this carrot of god?" [got that from the demon hunter interview in hm] that's not the point, food is needed to sustain life but not all food is clean, music is entertainment that actually is not a necessity of sustaining life therefore it can be both pervese and clean at the same time yet never serve God, it can only be written to praise God, that is what music is supposed to do, it is to give praise to God. but what about these pants i'm wearing i guess i should just blah blah blah...wrong again, clothing is needed to protect oneself from the elements and nothing more. One wouldn't wear a tank top and underpants out into 20 degree blizzard conditions? no, such a thing would be foolish, but every time we sample a little bit of the world, that's what we're doing spiritually, walking out into that blizzard without the proper gear on to ensure that we don't get hurt that's why in Ephesians we're told about spiritual armor to protect ourselves against the arrows of the enemy. I know long winded post, hopefully it made some sense to ya.
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Post by rockergirl on Jan 1, 2008 6:26:50 GMT -5
Well winnow as said already with God there is black and white and no gray(sitting on the fence).
It is either from God or it ain't , whether it be music, television,movies.Anything that does not bring glory To God or may lead someone to God is from the world.
Now to what degree one delves into the secular world is up to them as we cannot hide away from the world as we are forever presented with all kinds of worldly media/entertainment/philosophies/beliefs etc however as Gods word says he who loves the world ,the love of the Father is not in them.These are very sobering words and plain black and white as you are either for God or for the world as we cannot serve two masters.
This goes for everything in life and not just entertainment mediums.Sport,arts and crafts even a day at the park is of the world so with out becoming too extremist we do need to remember a couple of major things.
1 Why are we here ?
2 Where are we heading ?
The way a person lives ones life is a reflection of what/and or who they live for.
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Post by ironguardian on Jan 1, 2008 6:45:35 GMT -5
Good to see you again RockerGirl.
Just thought I'd throw in an out-of-context verse to see how it adds to this discussion.
Ecclesiastes 2:24 A man can do nothing better than to eat and drink and find satisfaction in his work.
Actually no I've looked it up, it doesn't fit the discussion at all. Hmm, it came to me while reading your post, but it doesn't fit in.
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Post by winnow on Jan 2, 2008 1:35:18 GMT -5
All though I dont agree completely with Todd and Rocker Girl, please dont think I didnt take notiv=ce of anything you said. I agree that what God has to say is black and white and but I think man limits things of God into this little tiny box. Nature documentrys for example...you might not be able to watch them because of the things they say about evolution, where as I can watch them disregard that stuff and se the glory of God in His creation. Todd, you might of missed what I was saying when you said that it was "conditioned circular reasoning". I was being quite serious. My (serious)question is, do you think that it is as easy as hearing or seeing something ungodly and that effects your spiritual walk? If so I would have to wonder how strong your faith is. I dont just look at music as entertainment. I appreciate it much more than just a form of entertainment...not all, but a lot.
I guess the other issue here is what one might consider to be of God might not be for another. I have seen lyrics written by christian bands that are very open about thier faith and "evangalical", but some of the lyrics are totlay not of God. I guess you could relate it to the whole war issue and capitol punishment issue. To me there is things in the bible that make it very clear on what God thinks about these things and yet there are christians that completely disagree and use the scriptures to back up thier argument.
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Post by exodus312 on Jan 2, 2008 4:59:08 GMT -5
to bring this back to the original topic:
Some of the early Helloween (think Walls of Jericho and Keeper of the 7 Keys parts 1 &2) has some pretty positive lyrics. Not sure on where their religious affiliations lie (if at all).
Plus, to top it all off, the music itself is pretty rockin'
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Post by winnow on Jan 2, 2008 7:01:18 GMT -5
I thought I should just add that long ago I learnt not just to take peoples word for it when they quote scripture and tell me that certain things mean certain things in the original greek or hebrew. Todd, When Jesus spoke about serving two masters he was talking about serving God or money/wealth. And when the word world is used in the greek it also can be talking about the actual planet and its inhabitants including you and I.
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Post by winnow on Jan 2, 2008 7:14:22 GMT -5
Now to what degree one delves into the secular world is up to them as we cannot hide away from the world as we are forever presented with all kinds of worldly media/entertainment/philosophies/beliefs etc however as Gods word says he who loves the world ,the love of the Father is not in them.These are very sobering words and plain black and white as you are either for God or for the world as we cannot serve two masters. Do you think that just listening to people or watching them that aren't christians means you love the world?
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Post by rockergirl on Jan 2, 2008 17:38:57 GMT -5
Well Winnow,
Let me start off by saying that as Jesus himself said my Kingdom is not of this world that means that once someone is drawn to Christ,becomes born again/saved they then become part of his/that Kingdom.
Now to answer your question Jesus loved the world's people as obviously he died on the cross for them all so it depends on whether or not you are listening or watching them the same way Jesus would or is it the way the world does because when you are a Christian you are meant to whatever you do and everything you do to do it in the name of or for Jesus as his word says.(if you want me to quote where the verse is in the Bible or any other scripture i mention let me know and i will certainly provide the chapter(s) and verse(s)).
So if you go along and love what they are doing and they ain't Christian then that very well could be interpreted as loving the world.Anything we do that does not involve God or has a purpose for telling people about Jesus to be quite frank borders on if not is actual worldliness.You can have an interest in things like cars,music, video games even people that ain't Christian however as long as we are in them(a friend/witness ie) and they ain't in us all will be fine as we are in the world but not of it in other words the world not being in us is what distinguishes a Christian from a non Christian.
Now as far as secular bands go this is a tough one depending on who you ask as to whether or not Christians should partake as there is only really 2 opinions which are it doesn't matter what you listen to and you should not listen to anything not Christian.For me personally i listen to most secular within reason(i refuse to listen to slayer for instance) however i must say lyrically they don't do much if anything for me as the music itself is more what i am attracted to.
Jesus hung out with sinners so i guess he would go to a metallica concert if he was on earth physically today.However he would most certainly be witnessing to people if he was to do so and not going along for his own personal enjoyment.This is another thing we need to ask ourselves including myself and that is what are we getting out of it?.If your a Christian when it comes to secular music all you are doing is filling your head up with worldly garbage and sure you may be strong enough in the Lord for it not to affect you yet you are still filling your head up with garbage and by buying the album and or going to their gigs supporting them in what they do and contributing to their lifestyle by the changeover of cash from you to them by way of album/ticket sales which is what i have been considering of late.
So i think the main thing here is where your heart is at and who it belongs to.
The other part of the verse do not love the world that we need to touch on is the last part which says"and it's fallen ways" which are things like ,pride,boasting,arrogance etc.These actions are also another indication of who is worldly even if they are a Christian because if you have these traits then you most certainly are of the world which i think is what the Bible is also talking about when it says "do not love the world because you will become like this which is what the world is".So it is not necessarily the thing you do or like that is bad it is what it leads to that is bad.
It is easy to say you love Jesus however as you probably already know or have seen as most of us have talk is cheap as many talk the talk but don't really walk the walk when no one is watching them.
As i said in another post i have been steering away from secular music for some time now and much prefer Christian/Gospel music.
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Post by winnow on Jan 3, 2008 6:10:59 GMT -5
So if you go along and love what they are doing and they ain't Christian then that very well could be interpreted as loving the world.Anything we do that does not involve God or has a purpose for telling people about Jesus to be quite frank borders on if not is actual worldliness.You can have an interest in things like cars,music, video games even people that ain't Christian however as long as we are in them(a friend/witness ie) and they ain't in us all will be fine as we are in the world but not of it in other words the world not being in us is what distinguishes a Christian from a non Christian. I dont mean to be harsh, but because you love what someone who is not a christian is doing(within reason) being interpreted as loving the world is a bit extreme to me. Believe it or not there are people out there that have Godly characterisitics that are not christians. Take the story of the Samaritan for example...there is a good reason that Jesus used a Samaritan in that story. If I saw someone who is not a christian telling kids to honour thier parents, and was helping them with thier homework or stuff like that and I implored them for that, would you really consider me loving the world? Now as far as secular bands go this is a tough one depending on who you ask as to whether or not Christians should partake as there is only really 2 opinions which are it doesn't matter what you listen to and you should not listen to anything not Christian.For me personally i listen to most secular within reason(i refuse to listen to slayer for instance) however i must say lyrically they don't do much if anything for me as the music itself is more what i am attracted to. Jesus hung out with sinners so i guess he would go to a metallica concert if he was on earth physically today.However he would most certainly be witnessing to people if he was to do so and not going along for his own personal enjoyment.This is another thing we need to ask ourselves including myself and that is what are we getting out of it?.If your a Christian when it comes to secular music all you are doing is filling your head up with worldly garbage and sure you may be strong enough in the Lord for it not to affect you yet you are still filling your head up with garbage and by buying the album and or going to their gigs supporting them in what they do and contributing to their lifestyle by the changeover of cash from you to them by way of album/ticket sales which is what i have been considering of late. Firstly I just want to say that I dont listen to everything and anything, I too have my limitations. How do you know that Jesus wouldn't just go somewhere to hang out? Spending time with people can be such a valuable thing. I can see where you're coming from with the whole "support" thing and its something I've considered too. But this is something that can go way beyond are they a christian or not. I can tell you right now that there are people in christian bands that have spent peoples money on dodgey stuff. If I walked down the street and saw a busker and liked what he played and considered throwing money in his/her hat or whatever he/she might have put out for money I would not ask them if they are a christian or not first. From what Ive been told the owner of Coca Cola is a free-mason. Do you think we should call all christians to stop buying coke? So i think the main thing here is where your heart is at and who it belongs to. Awesome The other part of the verse do not love the world that we need to touch on is the last part which says"and it's fallen ways" which are things like ,pride,boasting,arrogance etc.These actions are also another indication of who is worldly even if they are a Christian because if you have these traits then you most certainly are of the world which i think is what the Bible is also talking about when it says "do not love the world because you will become like this which is what the world is".So it is not necessarily the thing you do or like that is bad it is what it leads to that is bad. Are you saying here that you can be a christian and still be of the world? Or be a christian and have worldly traits? The latter is quite obvious and I think that anyone who said they dont still struggle with worldy traits since they've become a christian is a liar. But these are things that Jesus will and does work with us through.
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Post by exodus312 on Jan 3, 2008 7:13:17 GMT -5
Are you saying here that you can be a christian and still be of the world? Or be a christian and have worldly traits? The latter is quite obvious and I think that anyone who said they dont still struggle with worldy traits since they've become a christian is a liar. But these are things that Jesus will and does work with us through. 1 Cor 10:13 - No temptaion has seized you excpet what is common to man. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it. 1 Cor 10:23 - Everything is permissable, but not everything is beneficial. Everything is permissable, but not everything is constructive. I have no idea why, but these verses struck me as I was reading these posts. For myself, personally, I have no problem with secular music, to a point. For instance, as with rockergirl, I have no interest in Slayer. I have heard their 3 "influential" albums (Reign in Blood, South Of Heaven and Seasons in the Abyss), but really, I didn't much care for it. The music is fine, it's just the lyrics I have a problem with (yet suprisingly, Tom Araya, the singer, is a very devout Catholic... Go figure). Also, as much as I love Maiden, the song "The Number of the Beast" I have issues with, even though I know what it is and isn't about (it's NOT about devil worship, btw. It's about a nightmare that Steve Harris had after watching The Omen part 2. But, again, Nicko McBrain (the drummer) is Christian, and has stated that he has no problem playing this song, nor From Here to Eternity ("Hell ain't a bad place, Hell is from Here to Eternity" which are the lyrics to the chorus, if you didn't know)). But, having said all this, some of the "christian" music, I find to be downright boring and/or sometimes even wrong by my viewpoint. Take, for instance, the Hillsong mob (real metal, I know ). Some of their songs are great, but there are a couple that I find to be downright wrong, such as "Take It All" (or whatever it's called). My reasoning for this is that I find the lyrics to be almost telling God what to do. To me, that is just downright disrespectful. I have no logical reasoning behind this viewpoint, it's just how I feel. I suppose it all comes down to personal choice: If you don't wish to listen to secular stuff... hey, no problem. If you do, also no problem. Just be careful what you partake into yourself through forms of entertainment. But hey, wasn't the whole point of this topic to find some bands that aren't of the "We Hate Christ, and We're Gonna Kill All Christians" variety in the metal world (a pre-dominatly "anti-everything" genre intially)? Sorry for the long-winded post, I usually don't get involved in these kind of discussions.
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Post by rockergirl on Jan 3, 2008 18:41:30 GMT -5
Winnow,
Firstly encouraging children to do their homework is at least encouraging them to honor their parents or do what is right as we all need to be educated which is a Godly way.The good samaratin is to love thy neigbour which is another Godly trait.The worldly traits i was talking about and referred to are pride,boasting,arrogance so the examples you provided are not being worldly at all just showing Godly traits in the world which is what i was saying.
On the issue of support of artists by buying their music /going to their concerts more often than not they actually live what they sing about in lyrics which is usually ungodliness and what i was talking about.Just because the owner of cocoa-cola may be a free mason does not mean we are supporting free masonry by buying the product because we ain't.Furthermore and more to the point NOWHERE in any coca-cola marketing/advertising/promotions or whatever do they mention ,promote or encourage free masonry and besides i am sure you drive a car as i do so does that mean that because they can and are used for evil purposes that we are part of that as well because we too drive cars? Of course not like with most things they are a double edged sword that can be used for good or bad and with worldly music it is more often than not the edge of the sword that goes against God being used.
As said in my first paragraph there is traits from God used in the world and this is the key.You acknowledge that even non Christians often live cleaner and more moral lives than the Christian and i completely agree that does happen very often.That is because Godly morals/traits can be used by non Christians and as mentioned are quite often which is what i was talking about when i said Christians are not to adopt traits like the world(pride,boasting,arrogance).So yes you can be in the world and not of it (traits) as non Christians use Godly traits yet are of the world because they don't acknowledge Christ.Now i understand and agree Christians can and do have trouble ridding themselves of worldly ways however as Jesus said you cannot serve two masters and eventually God will challenge you on this and ask you to choose because fence sitters and those living in both camps are not in Gods camp i can promise you.So you can be a Christian in the world who may go to the odd sports game,loves driving their car around town on a saturday night and then a picnic lunch with the family on a sunday after church but because Christ is their Lord and they acknowledge that in word and deed doing these things mentioned does not make them of the world and this is all i was trying to say before.
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Post by winnow on Jan 5, 2008 22:26:24 GMT -5
I may have misunderstood you Rocker Girl...I thought you were saying that when supporting the bands that you're supporting thier life style. To me that means regardless of what they might be portraying in thier message if thier life style is dodgey and you're concerned about supporting that then you should be concerned about them as people and what goes on in thier lives besides just thier profession. I totaly agree with you that God will challenge us not to serve two masters. My point is what some consider "serving a master" or "loving the world" is not what I consider those things.
Exodus, cool post man.
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Post by rockergirl on Jan 6, 2008 0:32:26 GMT -5
Winnow to clarify for you,
Yes i do believe that if you buy secular music and go to their concerts then yes you are supporting their lifestyle as this goes without saying.
If you buy kiss music for example then whether or not you agree with sex between non married persons like gene simmons prouldy lives as gospel to him then buy buying the music and or going to a kiss concert you are part of that lifestyle he lives by 1 not being worried enough about that lifestyle to stop yourself from buying the music and 2 paying money to the artist to help maintain that lifestyle.
I am not telling anyone what to do and what to listen to but for me i am re evaluating everything i listen to because Gods word does say to have nothing to do with ungodliness so for me having their music counts as being part of it..
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